[Bob Hook]

I see the Hellenistic period of art as more of a broadening and deepening of the idealistic creations of the Greek Classical period. Two examples come to mind. The first is the statue of The Old Woman. The artist’s initial intent has been lost over time. We are not certain if she is a zealot of Dionysus, ravaged by the years of devotion to drink and pleasure or is she simply an image of an elderly woman. My point is that she is neither a god nor a noble but instead is a depiction of a member of their society. There is now art that depicts everyday life. A progression in the subject matter at the very least.
The Venus de Milo is another example of the transition from Classic Greek to a Hellenistic creation. The statue carries the grandeur of the Classical Greek form yet it has been improved upon. Venus de Milo has a spiral stance the enhances the realism of the image. The draping of her clothes builds expectation and excitement. Overall, I think there was a definite progression to a new art form called Hellenistic that we both admire and copy to this day.

[Bob Hook]

Wow, Lucas, I couldn’t agree with you more. I think art did move on in the Hellenistic period. The art was built upon the foundation and techniques of the Greek Classical period. The Hellenistic period would not have existed without the classical artists creating the base.

[Bob Hook]

Miranda, thanks for another great post. You have us all thinking about the Fibonacci sequence and anatomy. I think that we view art from how we view nature. The symmetry and the influence of the Fibonacci series are always present in nature. This continual immersion in these objects from nature has both a conscious and unconscious effect. I think that this is the reason why art appears to accurately reflect the subject matter or it fails. The brain and eye are all attuned to what is correct. If the proportions appear off then the brain says it is not authentic, it is a flawed representation.

[Bob Hook]

Hellenistic art is certainly broader in the subject matter it covers when compared to the Classical Greek period. We still have the study of the human body but the area of study includes individuals, babies, and an elderly woman. The characters depicted have characteristics unique to their individual bodies. The baby, cherub, Sleeping Eros is displayed with skin that is rounded and smooth, like that of a baby. His expressions duplicate those of a child sleeping. The class material states that it was created by a Greek sculptor and reproduced in many variations. “So many variations that we believe it was one of the most popular motifs in ancient times.’ It is also mentioned that at the end of the Hellenistic period Greek civilization was conquered by Romans. It describes how Greek sculptors were utilized to produce art for the Romans. This would have certainly diversified the Hellenistic art form across the Mediterranean. Artists may have been based in the Hellenistic form and structure but the art form was modified by the use of different artistic materials, artistic interpretations, and cultures. There is no longer a central theme based only upon religion and the gods. There is a new ideal established, based upon the human form.

[Bob Hook]

The Classical period of Greek art brought together the tools, knowledge, and materials to begin depicting humans in a more lifelike manner. With the ability to control images to a greater degree the artist began to set idealized standards of proportion and images for both men and woman. They rendered these images in marble and created them as standalone images or as parts of a temple. The Erechtheion or the Porch of Maidens Athens, c. 420-410 BCE is a great example of these images.
The women are all identical stylized with a straight bold stance, clinging clothes that show their individual forms. Their hair is woven into intricate identical patterns. The obvious problem is once we begin to idolize one form of the human body we begin to create expectations for our own appearance. We establish a norm. If you meet those standards than you are highly valued. If you fall short and you begin to feel somehow inadequate. This perceived inadequacy is played upon by the marketplace in an attempt to sell you the one magic cure-all in clothes, protein powders, make-up, etc that will allow you to achieve the perceived definition of beauty

[Bob Hook]

This is a very complex issue that gets to the very nature of humans. I think it is important to construct this discussion around the concept that art belongs to everyone it influences. Copyright laws in America provide for actual ownership rights in our society and for a modern artist. Currently, there is much concern over cultural appropriation among different cultures within our society. I think this has always occurred. We learn of other human activities and we adopt what we like and disregard other aspects we find less desirable. It just happens faster now. We see something we admire and within days it goes viral.
Much of the art we view in this class is disassociated from the culture who created it. Our art history has been ravaged by conquers seeking gold and jewels, by destruction in war and by time itself. The conquers have always taken the spoils and this will continue as long as we have inequities in society.
Rights of ownership will always be challenged. What I do know is that no one or group has the right to destroy or damage art to fit their own cultural biases or beliefs. Maybe in the future, all art will be available digitally or holographically where it can be viewed and understood for eternity without the threat of being owned by a particular group.

[Bob Hook]

Allie, you raise some great points and this is a very complex issue. Times and cultures change and appreciation of culture can also change. Much of the art we look at was preserved by people and cultures different than those who created it. What if the cultures no longer wish to be associated with their past? I can’t help but be saddened by the destruction done to the Statues of Buddha, Bamyan Afganistan by the Taliban. All done in an attempt to religiously purify their heritage from outside influence.

[Bob Hook]

Lucas, I always enjoy reading your discussion points. I agree that by the strictest terms that Greek art does not meet the modern definition of humanism. However, this is the first cultural step in this direction. The Greeks began to celebrate their lives and all of the joys and pains they incur. The gods are still there but the relationships are beginning to change. My favorite example is Dionysus the god of wine, vegetation, and pleasure. Much easier for me to support than the other ancient gods who only bring eternal damnation and judgment.

[Bob Hook]

I enjoyed all the definitions of humanism that are out there. One I particularly liked is from a YouTube video titled Humanism Introduction Part 1 that featured many poets, scientists, writers, and philosophers presenting their thoughts on humanism. One that stood out to me was from Zoe Margolis, writer, and journalist, who stated “we can be decent human beings who love and support and help each other and not expect a fantasy to fulfill our hopes and dreams in this life’. This means that we accept more responsibilities for our lives and do not rely on gods to bring us fortune or fame. We begin to accept the world for what it is and we are free to enjoy nature and our personal activities that bring us joy and freedom.
This is reflected in early Greek art as it is not solely dedicated to religion and religious leaders. Funerary kraters were often decorated with scenes from the individual’s life including aspects of farming or a warrior’s life. There were also Homeric influences that can be found in everyday objects, poems, and literature. These served to celebrate the lives and adventures of men and woman. Certainly, the gods had their roles still but individuals living a “good life’ were also worthy of note.

[Bob Hook]

Maggie great post and I agree that the Minoans were definitely more playful in the interpretations of animals. The Octopus flask is a great example of this and when compared to the stirrup octopus hat of the Mycenaenens you can see the difference between representation and the characterzation of the Minoans.

[Bob Hook]

I agree Miranda they did advance interest in ethical archeology. Their examples of mistakes and attempts to defraud the public has provided all of us interested in history and archeology a standard to adhere to.

[Bob Hook]

I think that their conclusion has continued to confuse and miss-represent the true meaning of the objects. Probably the most egregious of these acts is when Heinrich Schliemann altered a gold death mask to become The Mask of Agamemnon. Agamemnon was certainly well known through literature so this find would carry a great deal of prestige and recognition to the finder. Unfortunately, it is theorized the Schliemann did modify this funerary masks from that time. In addition, historians have now proven that this mask is 300 years older than Schliemann theorized. The handlebar mustache was added and does not match the Mycenaean fashion. It appears the attempts to defraud others was intentional.
I consider Sir Arthur Evans mistake in naming a building used by an aristocratic confederation as a palace far less concerning. I expect Sir Evans error was jumping to conclusions that a building of this size must have been attributed to the ruling class. His British heritage tells him that leaders live in palaces and would have led to this conclusion along with a modern-day name. Whether intentional or un-intentional these false conclusions delay the true meaning of the understanding of ancient cultures.

[Bob Hook]

I think it is always a challenge when we take a small sampling of artifacts and begin to expand our critiques to characterize societies over a thousand years. The architecture at Mycenae in Peloponnese, Greece can be defined as an easily defended position meant to house the leaders. It was built on a hill and commanded a view of the valleys surrounding it. The Lion’s Gate entry was meant to convey a sense of power and the thick walls provided protection from invaders.
The Mycenaean culture was on a trade route. Artifacts and cultural appropriation like the Minoan styled column on the Lion’s Gate, indicate that they did trade with both the other cultures. This trade brought both great wealth, and cultural exchange but also the threat of being conquered. I see Mycenaean culture as having to expend more treasure and energy in a conflict in order to protect their society.
The Minoan society function in a more idyllic atmosphere. The cultural luxury of not having as great of a concern for defense allows the citizens to focus on art and the celebration of life and the environment. This is easily seen in several different mediums. The Kamares ware vessels are decorated beyond what is functionally needed to be a utilitarian vessel. A great example is the Octopus Flask, c.1500-1450 BCE, is decorated with an impressive rendering of an octopus encompassing the flask itself. In fact, there is a sense of joy from this artifact indicated by the almost whimsical face. Another example that indicates this cultural harmony can be discovered in the Minoan Bee Pendant that celebrates nature utilizing gold and many artistic techniques. Peace and prosperity often allow cultures to place special emphasis on everyday items elevated to the level of art.

[Bob Hook]

Great points Lucas I agree that the two discussion points carry a great deal of crossover. I think that just demonstrates thouroughly their relegion and culture were integrated. It was as if the only purpose of art and architecture is for the leaders, gods and the afterlife. It was nice to find that there was some everyday art too. I really enjoyed the blue toy hippo.

[Bob Hook]

Herodotus was very impressed with the religious culture of the Egyptians because it permeated all aspects of their lives and into the great unknown of the afterlife. I think one of the reasons this occurred was because of the continuity of their gods and worship over time. As an example, the falcon-headed god Horus is recognizable from The Palette of King Narmer of the Old Kingdom, 2649 BCE, until the Last Judgement of Hunefer, 1275BCE. A time period of 1374 years. This relatively long period time of peace and prosperity gave the Egyptians a great deal of freedom to create rituals and religious items to honor the various deities.

The belief in the afterlife and the role of the Pharaoh as a deity further concentrated the religious aspects of this culture. The Great Pyramids, the Sphinx, Funerary Temple of Hatshepsut, and the Tomb of Tutankhamen are all tributes to their gods and leaders. The visible presence of these structures was inescapable to the citizens and even the invaders of the kingdom. It continuously re-enforced the religious culture, the gods, the pharaohs, judgement and the afterlife.

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