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Minoan culture, from our contemporary perspective, is often seen as carefree and peaceful. People lived in harmony with their environment. The Mycenaeans, on the other hand, seemed to constantly engage in conflict. While this is likely an oversimplified view, how do you see it either proven or disproven through their visual record?
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The Minoans’ art contained many more luxurious items than the Mycenaeans’ art did, indicating that the culture was comfortable enough to have the time and money for such things. For example, the kamares jugs and rhytons were both table ware used for serving aristocrats liquids. These were also found in other regions of the world, indicating that the civilization had a strong trade network. The Warrior Krater of the Mycenaean period showcased soldiers heading off to war, whereas the ceramic ware of the Minoan period, such as the Harvester Rhyton, displayed men participating in what was likely a harvest festival or religious procession. They also produced works such as honeybee pendants, octopus flasks, and snake goddess figurines, all of which express an understanding and appreciation for the animals and natural world around them.
Even the architecture of the two civilizations was created differently. Mycenae was designed so that it could be easily defended against enemies, whereas the Palace Complex at Knossos was created on flatter ground and included many decorative features. This stark contrast between what occupied the attention of the two cultures makes sense given the prompt downfall of the Mycenaeans and their preceding turbulent existence. -
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Looking over both the Minoan and Mycenaean art, there seem to be subtle yet directing contrasts. For example the architecture – the Minoan architecture of the palace complex of Knossos seemed to be made to look more appealing, instead of being a strong hold. The defensive advantage that was chosen for the palace complex to have a confusing layout, making it hard for enemies to navigate and easier for the residents to escape or fight back. The Mycenaean architecture focuses on strength and taking advantage of the location for the purpose of battle. The lions on the Lion Gate are an example of displaying strength and intimidating visitors. The city of Mycenae is located in an area that is difficult for enemies to invade. Mycenaean architecture and art seemed to be more focused on strategic battle and defense. I found the Warrior Krater to be interesting, too. Similar to Egyptian art, the soldiers have little to no variance, as if they have no individual identity. The ceramics of the Minoan culture are not focused on soldiers or battle, they focus on nature instead or harvesting.
Looking at these examples, there seems to be a difference in focus of the artwork. The Minoan culture focuses more on nature and living with nature and interpersonal relationships, while the Mycenaean culture seemed to focus on strength, intimidation, and defensive strategies for battles. -
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While there is obvious differences in the Minoan and Mycenaean culture, for an example. The Minoan art work shows a decorative palace complex, the elaborate jugs used for wine, or other festivities, shows the significance of such dinners or festivals where the jugs were used, and the bull-leaping fresco shows the Minoans did enjoy their leisure time, however maybe these just happen to be the activities or objects their art focused on. Maybe only the rich had money to commission art, so the only art that was created was for their festivals. The Mycenaen culture seems to place emphasis on strength like the lion gate, or warrior krater, or easily defended centers. But again, perhaps this is just the main part of their culture that artists focused on. I think it would be hard to interpret the life of these different people from just a few pieces of art.
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Re Kaitlyn:
You make an excellent point about only the rich being able to commission art. This could definitely have affected what art we see from the time. Likewise, the Mycenaeans’ art could have come from the government’s money, which would explain the abundance of military-oriented pieces. -
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RE: Kaitlyn
I really like the point you made about the art simply having focused on a certain aspect of Minoan culture. I hadn’t thought of that even being an option, but I suppose it certainly could have been the case. One thought I do have though is that it seems like there would at least be some sort of ruins show casing their weapons or some other evidence of the ‘warrior’ portion of their society. But hey, who knows, maybe those things have simply been lost. So much has been lost over thousands of years, so I wouldn’t doubt it! Also, as you said, perhaps the people who were able to pay for the art to be made were only the top of the top. Perhaps the people in the lower levels of the society did the fighting and such.
Great post! (:
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This is very true, but the pieces that we do have to examine can tell us a lot about this culture, as you pointed out. We may not have a comprehensive understanding but we can gather a lot from what remains. I personally love studying the ceramic vessels of these cultures. They give away so many clues from leisure activities, to nutrition, and even the characteristics of the landscape that proved important to these societies.
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Kaitlyn I thought you had some really good points! I agree with you when you say the Minoan culture really enjoyed their leisure time. I thought there was more information on the Minoan culture than the Mycenaean culture so it was a little hard to go into detail. But go into more detail on the Mycenaean culture, even just going into detail on one aspect of Mycenaean culture you mentioned would of been great. Really great post though.
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While the Minoans seem to have many vessels for holding wine and other drinks, as well as several artworks depicting some sort of festivities, and the Mycenaean’s artwork depict people going to war, fighting lions, and other displays of strength, I don’t think this necessarily has to mean the Minoans were peaceful and the Mycenaeans weren’t. I think it could be a representation of how the two cultures view conflict. The Mycenaeans celebrate conflict, while the Minoans celebrate times when there wasn’t conflict. I think their perspective artworks could have been a depiction of what they celebrated, not necessarily their realities.
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To ckocsis
I thought your perspective was great on how the Minoans would celebrate when there wasn’t conflict. As well that the Mycenaeans would celebrate conflict, and how these represent their views on the subject not necessarily their daily occurrence. Do you think either or both of these cultures would use their artwork to show rarer and/or daily reoccurrences? Great ideas! -
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I definitely agree that both cultures probably experienced ‘war’ and ‘peace’ at different times. Their choices in art certainly represent what they care about and found important. I think probably too though the Minoans fought less than the Mycenaean because of geography or for whatever political reasons.
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RE: ckosis
The view that you had on the discussion post was completely different it looks like when reading other classmates information. You explained that “The Mycenaeans celebrate conflict, while the Minoans celebrate times when there wasn’t conflict.” I did not think about it this way and find it very interesting to view their art this way. I thought completely opposite of you and believed that the artwork each culture created was what they were experiencing in their own cultures. This made the most sense to me and could be seen as a beneficial way to observe the Minoan and Mycenaean cultures. -
I think you are right that one can get a warped view of what was going on at the time just by viewing a few pieces of art from the time. The warriors on the Warrior Krater actually look like they are enjoying themselves if you ask me. Some cultures were military based and their art represents that. Just because a culture was focused on its military does not mean that they were a warring people.
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The Minoan and Mycenaeans both had different lifestyles that we can recognize through their architecture and cultural styles. These cultural differences don’t necessarily mean they didn’t experience the same things such as conflicts. But their cultural outputs are none the less unique and beautifully filled with meanings. Mycenae in Peloponnese, Greece is built on a hilltop. Many theories consider that the Mycenaeans did this as a natural strategy of defense. Comparing this structure to The Palace Complex of the Minoans in Knossos, Crete. This palace was reconstructed and repaired for several centuries, giving signs of longevity to the site. Evidence also showed that the Minoans dealt with natural disasters such as a earthquake around 1700 BCE. The cypress tree trunks were inverted to stunt any growth, including being flexible to support the structure from another earthquake. Each of these cultures architecture were built with certain purpose to handle their unique situations. Without written records to tell us daily life we don’t know what stresses they experienced, but we can get a better perspective from what was left behind.
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It is clear that leisure was a massive part of Minoan culture. Their palaces had sophisticated masonry with heaps of beautiful scenic paintings on the walls. They also had sanitary facilities and provisions of adequate lighting and ventilation. These are not your standard architectural norms at this time– but these people were concerned with the simple pleasures of life. Much of what they traded with other civilizations were finely crafted goods, and also during this period of time there was a tremendous amount of development in metal work and pottery. A society that did not value sophistication, luxury, and leisure, would not put such an emphasis on all of these things. The Mycenaeans on the other hand, were known as fierce warriors and great engineers. They were known for their fortified walls and bridges. The sheer level of fortification of the city shows the deep concern for safety. The Mycenaeans buried their dead with weapons, and while they also buried them with other fine jewelry, the level of care given to the ‘fine’ objects in Mycenaean culture, does not really compare to that of Minoan culture. There was also a greater emphasis of bright color in Minoan culture that is not seen in Mycenaean culture. While whole civilizations cannot be completely simplified to only luxurious or only war loving, I do believe there is evidence of a difference in values as well as cultural emphasis between these two civilizations.
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The idea of aggressive Mycenaeans is definitely seen in their art. Art we see in the Ancient Aegean Wing shows this especially well, in their obsession with predator animals (lions) seen in The Lion Gate entering the citadel of Mycenae. Not only that, but displayed on The Mycenaean Ceramics: the Warrior Krater, there are many people dressed and equipped for war (shields, spears, and armor).
The peace of the Minoans is not as obvious as the aggressiveness as the Mycenaeans, but it is still displayed in their works. The marine style ceramic, the Octopus Flask, is a very good example of this. An octopus isn’t necessarily a commonly seen aggressive animal (like the lion), but the depiction of the cartoon-like eyes makes it more peaceful and playful at first glance. To some extent, their peaceful nature is also displayed in the Kamares Ware Jug, which is decorated with plants and curved shapes, as apposed to square shapes and war figures.
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Lucas, I like that you mentioned the predator versus non-aggressive animals shown in their artwork. The Mycenaean people did have a vase with an octopus as well, but theirs definitely looks a lot different than the Minoans’. It’s not as peaceful looking and could maybe be seen as an aggressive version of the creature.
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I can’t help but see how the living in harmony with nature aspect of the Minoan culture when I see their art like the Honeybee pendant. Or The Master of the Animals pendant. Both include animals and are ornate and beautiful. It does give the impression that there was possibly more wealth in the Minoan culture and that they were a people group that respected nature and animals. Besides the jewelry much of the ceramics also portrayed animals and light-hearted aspects like the Octopus Flask. Being in touch with nature and having respect for it is also seen in some of the Mycenaean’s art as well. They have many ceramics with animals and plants as well and could be thought to have similar respects for the environment like the Minoan. The main differences in Mycenaean’s art does include art with more war themes like The Warrior Krater and The Lion Gate. It could be said though that both cultures had similar influences, but one chose to not embrace the conflicts and war in their art like the Mycenaeans did. In the case of The Warrior Krater, there is warriors on the jar, but honestly, they don’t look fierce or scary and they almost look cartoon like and light-hearted.
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Valene, they definitely share similarities in their respect for the plant and animal life around them. I like that you describe the people shown on The Warrior Krater as almost cartoon-like; that’s a good way of describing it. One of the warriors on it even looks like he has a little smile on his face, so they definitely don’t look fierce or scary. Do you think you would have had a different opinion on it if they looked a little more realistic and/or fierce rather than light-hearted?
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Hi tmbergan, Yes I definitely feel like I would have a different opinion if the warriors were not cartoon like and light-hearted. I know this is a weird comparison but it honestly gives me more the impression of those old Road Runner cartoons. Those cartoons where full of fighting and the Coyote character getting hurt but it was done in a light-hearted manner and with comedy. There is a huge difference to some modern cartoons that include actual war and fighting where the characters are dying and blood and gore is shown. Both cartoons are dealing with fighting but there is a very different approach and influence to the audience.
Ultimately both these civilizations have some of the same influences and are showing those influences in their art forms but they both seem to be including a more amusing and entertaining side than some other cultures we have studied.
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When one contrasts Mycenae and the complex of Knossos, it is easy to see why we have that perspective. Knossos was built with aesthetics in mind. Bright colors and frescos are not meant for defenses. The massive columns could be dangerous under siege and the four entries would be impractical to defend. There is little about Knossos that says that it is defendable. As well, the amount of aesthetics within the compound would take money or power to build; this is usually not what a culture in conflict would expend either on.
When looking at Mycenae, it is the opposite. The location is highly defensive. Entryways like the Lion’s Gate would be easy to defend as well. The fact that people were buried with their weapons implies that they valued their weapons and wished, in some manner, to honor the dead or send them to the afterlife with their highly prized possession. There is little to show for aesthetics in Mycenae, and what we do see, like the Lion’s Gate, has a purpose like showing power and strength. Everything about Mycenae appears to be in support of a culture in conflict, either in defense or appearances.
For myself, I see these representations through art as being in support of the concept of a peaceful Minoan culture and a more war-like Mycenaen culture. -
Minoan culture was on its own island which may play a part in why they did not seem to be in conflict as much. It could be possible that they were able to seem more carefree and peaceful because they were more isolated than the Mycenaens. This is shown in the Bull Leaping Fresco when it seems like an almost playful pastime.
Unlike Minoan centers, the Mycenaeans built on hilltops that were easily defended. They used the natural landscape to enhance their fortifications. This also allowed Myceneans to view enemies from a distance. Take for example the Lion Gate, this was the primary entrance to the citadel and it was constructed in a way that made those approaching the gate isolated and venerable.
Tamara I like your point about the use of bright colors and frescos in the Minoan cultures it was a great way to show the vast difference in the cultures.-
Hey elkingkade,
I didn’t even think about the Minoans being isolated affecting their lack of conflict – that is a very good point. Also, the fact that the Mycenaeans constructed their cities in easily defend-able places makes them clearly the more aggressive of the two, along with a lot of their constructions helping for defense (as you stated, the Lion Gate). Good job!
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Elkingkaid, you make a very good point about the location differences. I think the location of Knossos and the Minoan culture on an isolated island makes a big difference in their culture. The fact of the location probably made it an undesirable place to attempt to take from any other cultures, so the Minoans enjoyed a much more peaceful existence than the Mycenaeans. I think those details that may seem minor in today’s modern world, change a lot in an ancient world. With our modern perspective, sometimes we overlook the importance of these details.
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I think it is always a challenge when we take a small sampling of artifacts and begin to expand our critiques to characterize societies over a thousand years. The architecture at Mycenae in Peloponnese, Greece can be defined as an easily defended position meant to house the leaders. It was built on a hill and commanded a view of the valleys surrounding it. The Lion’s Gate entry was meant to convey a sense of power and the thick walls provided protection from invaders.
The Mycenaean culture was on a trade route. Artifacts and cultural appropriation like the Minoan styled column on the Lion’s Gate, indicate that they did trade with both the other cultures. This trade brought both great wealth, and cultural exchange but also the threat of being conquered. I see Mycenaean culture as having to expend more treasure and energy in a conflict in order to protect their society.
The Minoan society function in a more idyllic atmosphere. The cultural luxury of not having as great of a concern for defense allows the citizens to focus on art and the celebration of life and the environment. This is easily seen in several different mediums. The Kamares ware vessels are decorated beyond what is functionally needed to be a utilitarian vessel. A great example is the Octopus Flask, c.1500-1450 BCE, is decorated with an impressive rendering of an octopus encompassing the flask itself. In fact, there is a sense of joy from this artifact indicated by the almost whimsical face. Another example that indicates this cultural harmony can be discovered in the Minoan Bee Pendant that celebrates nature utilizing gold and many artistic techniques. Peace and prosperity often allow cultures to place special emphasis on everyday items elevated to the level of art. -
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I think it is truly difficult to gain an accurate understanding of such rich and complex societies from so long ago. There could be many reasons as to why Minoan artwork seems to reflect a more laid back, leisurely life focused more on communal gathering, harvest, and events and why Mycenaean artwork seems to reflect a more defensive, war focused society.
First, we must consider that the Mycenaeans interacted with other societies frequently. With this comes a great potential for cultural exchange, but also a great potential to be attacked, which might explain why they appear to be engaged in conflict more frequently. The Lion’s Gate was intended to demonstrate the strength of their society to others and was easy to defend. The Warrior Krater also illustrates their focus on defense and war, as the soldiers which appear similar are all armed for battle.
The Mycenaean Warrior Krater contrasts with the Octopus Flask of the Minoans well. The Minoans depicted an animal usually seen as non-violent (or at least, not as violent as a lion) almost playfully. The Minoans were an island based people, which might also explain that they interacted with other societies (and were therefore threatened less frequently) than the Mycenaeans. The palace at Knossos was also less focused on aggressive defense and more focused on evasion, escape, and survival. From the artifacts we can observe, we can state that the Minoans appear to be a less assertive people from the Mycenaeans, and more focused on harvest and leisure. However, this is a broad generalization and must be recognized as such.-
Maggie great post and I agree that the Minoans were definitely more playful in the interpretations of animals. The Octopus flask is a great example of this and when compared to the stirrup octopus hat of the Mycenaenens you can see the difference between representation and the characterzation of the Minoans.
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While I do agree that this is an oversimplification, there is some degree of artistic evidence that the Minoans seemed to have less of a cultural focus on war than the Mycenaeans. There is a much larger variety of artistic mediums and forms within Minoan art, and the Mycenaean pieces such as the lion gate seem to be more functional than simply artistic in nature. Several of the Mycenaean art pieces such as the warrior krater and the ceremonial dagger blades also portray scenes of combat and martial prowess, while Minoan art pieces in general show examples of abstract artistic ideas, portrayals of musicians and animal symbolism. I think that Crete being rich in resources and a hub of sea trade allowed the Minoan culture to become financially secure and have a richer economy, which gave more citizens the freedom to become more devoted to the arts as a potential career path. It is possible that the Mycenaeans did not have this luxury, and conflict was therefore harder to avoid, which would make it inherently more important to their culture to have a strong and capable military.
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In Mycenaean works, we see that they focus on defensive efforts and consider the best ways to protect their city. This is seen in Pelponnese, where the city is constructed on a hillside which is easily defensible, and helps them see whoever is coming up upon them from all sides of the city. On the Warrior Krater, we see uniform soldiers marching with weapons and armor, and as pointed out on the notes, bears a significant difference in atmosphere as compared to the Harvester Rhyton of Minoan culture. Minoans had time to construct buildings such as the Palace Complex of Knossos, which tells us that warfare was not on the list of priorities as this complex is labyrinthine and heavily decorated.
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RE: Bob Hook
I like how you pointed out that trading with other cultures during that time also exposed them to the dangers of war. I guess we could say that they took preventative measures to ensure the safety of their civilization. As you pointed out, the Minoan civilization seemed to have more leisure time to spend on focusing their arts beyond the use of utility. This makes me ponder the focus on death rites within the Mycenae civilization, such as the death masks and the treasury of Atreus. Instead of focusing on the arts, they focused on defense and death. -
RE: Valene
Oooh, I like how you pointed out the nature aspect. Along with your statement of wealth, it also could be because they were more isolated and protected within their island, which gives them a better connection to the land since they are less likely to leave it. I don’t think the Mycenae are as serious as portrayed, but I do believe their lifestyle and social order must have been quite different from the Minoans.-
Re: Jessi
Thanks for your comments. The island part and being isolated does make sense for their connection to nature and being able to focus on that more than war and protecting their territory like previous cultures we’ve studied have done. It is definitely interesting to see how all these different cultures looked at life and how they integrated it into their art forms.
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The pottery made by both the Minoan and the Mycenaean people show flowing lines and shapes, as well as their sea and plant life around them. But Minoan pottery also seems shows a more relaxed culture versus the Mycenaean culture, who depicts them as “militaristic’ (see Minoan Harvester Rhyton, Mycenaean Warrior Krater). Those seem to be the only two big examples showing the difference between their people through their artwork. However, in some of their pottery that shows their sea life, both have made vases with an octopus on them. The Minoan vase shows the octopus drawn in a more cartoony way in its face, with the big eyes, but otherwise still seems fairly realistic while feeling freer. The Mycenaean vase, on the other hand, makes the octopus symmetric with ridiculously long tentacles and loses both the realistic and the freer feeling. The stiffer feeling of the Mycenaean octopus could be corresponding to a more rigid lifestyle that revolves around more uniformity as we can see in the Krater. I don’t necessarily see it as the Mycenaeans engaged in a lot more conflict, but maybe don’t view life as peaceful as the Minoans had.
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Nice post! Thee are some of my favorite works from this time period as well. I like your interpretation of the octopus vessels. It is super important to recognize the connection between these cultures and the landscape they relied so heavily upon. The repetitive sea theme can be recognized in a lot of work in this unit and reflects how important the ocean was to them.
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I agree with you that these differences don’t necessarily point to an all-war or an all-peace mindset for either culture, just a correlation. It’s true that the Mycenaeans may have seen life as less peaceful; we don’t exactly know the hardships they went through or the obstacles they had to face because of their lack of written history. We are left to speculate based on what was left behind; the Mycenaeans had more weapons at their excavation site, and for all we know this could have been a form of art or honoring the dead – not an indication of battle. I like your analysis of the differences in the octopus pottery. I agree that the lengthened tentacles take away from the relaxed art the Minoans created- this is something I felt when viewing these pieces but did not speculate on.
Thank you for sharing.
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While I’m sure that any human life encompasses the array of experiences from violence, to joyful celebration and that these things come in various degrees, a certain cultures values can certainly be reasonably speculated about based on their artwork. Just at a very simply level, the choice of what to put on the sides of their pots says something about what these people cared about and thought was worth saving. For instance, the ancient Egyptians obviously cared a great deal about funerals, and lo and behold their pots are covered in funeral-related imagery. That the Minoan pots had stuff like octopuses and abstract plants whereas the Mycenaean pots had monotone drab soldiers certainly indicates that the lives of the Minoans were more concerned with interacting with and celebrating natures and probably eating octopuses, while the Mycenaean’s consciousness was thinking about the battles that had been, and had yet to be fought.
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Minoan culture, from our contemporary perspective, is often seen as carefree and peaceful. People lived in harmony with their environment. The Mycenaeans, on the other hand, seemed to constantly engage in conflict. While this is likely an oversimplified view, how do you see it either proven or disproven through their visual record?
In both Minoan culture and Mycenaean culture, I believe composed similar art such as the vessels. The vessels of the Minoan culture looked similar visually to those of the Mycenaean culture, however if you look closer you see very different images crafted on them. The Minoan culture painted and sculpted men and women going to what looked like a festivals with happy chanting and fun animals such as octopus. This says to me that this culture valued animals and peace throughout their intricate sculptures on these vessels. On the Mycenaeans vessel we see a similar vase like sculpture to those of Minoan culture, but the painting on the vessel paints a different image. The vessel shows warriors going off to war, all in similar armor as we see the image of the woman waving goodbye in grief. Giving us a look inside the culture of the Mycenaeans, as the men march off to war leaving the woman behind to watch after the children and village. This brings me to believe Mycenaeans were often off fighting for land or loyalty. The Minoan culture and Mycenaean culture inhabited different locations, which helps more understand their cultures. The Minoan culture was built on more flat ground and was destroyed several times because the location was susceptible to natural disasters. The Mycenaeans built their village higher up and use their high ground as an advantage to keep out enemies. The Minoans had fun colors and art work around their village, which was not seen in the Mycenaeans village, indicating the Minoans lived more free with less war in my opinion. Overall, these cultures showed similarities however I believe they were very different from each other.
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Hi Gabe,
I agree that societies are not all peace or all war – certainly, they are a mixed bag of trying and forgiving times. I also think what was depicted on the outside of these pots is a large indicator of what these societies valued. Another example I considered is the architecture from both societies – the Minoan culture seemed to have more carefully, artistically constructed buildings while the Mycenaean seemed to have more based on protection. There was also more weaponry found at the Mycenaean site. I like how you brought in an example from another culture in order to support your theory.
Thank you for your response.
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Minoan and the Mycenaean had many similarities. But I focused more on the artwork of the Minoan culture. Their artwork depicts wealth. They had a fascination with bulls. It was believed the Thunder god had turned himself into gentle white bull. Bulls also represented fertility. Looking back at the artwork is incredible. The detail they had on females was surprising. Some even had wavy hair and red lips. The Minoan art work seemed more realistic then the Mycenaeans. The Mycenaeans had a way of over doing some things. There was evidence of languages that were found on dry clay. These became known as Linear A & Linear B. Linear B is actually the language Homer wrote his novels in.
Minoan built the Knossos which as a depiction of a bull on it. It seems they lived a peaceful lifestyle this could be due to culture or the fact the may of had fleets protecting the coast line.
However when it comes to the Mycenaean’s they were more war oriented in their art work with actual solders on it. They construction their living arrangements so they could monitor fellow enemy’s. There artwork was more elaborate in a unusual way.
There was a decline in the Minoan civilization this is believed to be caused by a volcano that killed thousands and destroyed much land. Affecting the trading routes as well as. On the plus side it helped to preserve what we know today to be fine art. -
While there is no definitive written record to support these theories, the Minoan culture was seen as a more peaceful society in comparison to the Mycenaean culture based on the artifacts and architecture left behind. The Minoan culture was lavish in superb, beautiful buildings. In Mycenaean architecture, it appears that the building were created with a more protective characteristic. It was also noted that Mycenaean culture had a lot more weapons, such as swords, around its excavation sites. There are pivotal differences in each culture’s art as well; Minoan art seemed to have a more relaxed content and symbolism to it, representative of wild life and things of beauty whereas the Mycenaean culture had art that was composed of protection and subtle warnings. While this does not prove for a fact that Mycenaean culture was more constantly engaged in conflict, it does somewhat suggest that they participated in battle more than the peaceful Minoan culture.
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The Minoans and the Mycenaeans seem to be completely different cultures and individuals. The Minoans did not seem to worry about conflict as much as the Mycenaeans did. This can even be seen in some of the artwork. Because of the Mycenaeans having so much conflict with themselves and others I believe this is something that highly influenced the art the created. The Minoan people created beautiful work. They also created such nice work because of their cultural ways. The Minoan culture seemed to have the mindset to focus more on luxurious and beautiful items like the kamares jugs and artworks depicting festivities. While the Mycenaean culture focused on strength and the advantages of war such as the lion gate or the warrior krater. I believe the day to day lives these cultures had were shown in the pieces of the artwork that were created.
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Re: Kaylyn Kelly
I agree that the day to day lives these cultures had were shown in the pieces of the artwork that were created. Sadly one culture had it rougher than the other one but that’s just how it is sometimes. Just imagine how much better things would be if these cultures united as one to help each other out. of course there are consequences to everything but I feel like if they learned to coexist, it would have had a lot more pros then cons. I also wanted to point out the piece where you connected the lion gate to the Myceneans way of life. I didn’t even think of that, I just thought of it as a really nice looking piece. good call on that one.
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Q: Minoan culture, from our contemporary perspective, is often seen as carefree and peaceful. People lived in harmony with their environment. The Mycenaeans, on the other hand, seemed to constantly engage in conflict. While this is likely an oversimplified view, how do you see it either proven or disproven through their visual record?
A: while looking through the visual records of the Mycenaeans, I couldn’t really find anything specific as to how this culture was constantly engaged in conflict except for the warrior krater. It doesn’t really give me a vibe of constant conflict but it does show me that at one point they needed these warriors to go to war. As for the Minoan culture, there wasn’t really any pieces that could tell me that this culture was ever in some sort of conflict. However, there was the harvester rhyton. This piece showed a large group of men together in a formation that is usually done by the marching soldiers found in Egypt with their mouths open supposedly chanting. These men were very skinny and looked as if they hadn’t eaten in a while. I don’t think this piece gives enough information for me to say that the Minoan culture is in any way conflicted with anyone so I’m going to conclude that these people were indeed carefree and peaceful.
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Minoan culture, from our contemporary perspective, is often seen as carefree and peaceful. People lived in harmony with their environment. The Mycenaeans, on the other hand, seemed to constantly engage in conflict. While this is likely an oversimplified view, how do you see it either proven or disproven through their visual record?
Visual record to determine a culture is an interesting concept to think about. In all reality, the culture that depicts more conflict may have been in a safer place to express those feelings of turmoil, where one that only depicts joy may have been fearful to depict their cultures actual pain. I know that when I am painting, often times my paintings have a melancholy, or sorrowful heir to them, which really doesn’t represent my beliefs or culture at all, just a means to empty out those parts of myself. I would hope to not be judged on my personality from the pain in some of my personal work. None the less, these cultures are represented and interpreted as such. I believe the best example to compare and contrast would be the Minoans, Rhytons. On this piece, there is a group of men, somewhat undetermined what they are doing but show no signs of discomfort, they have half smiles, are not in any sort of military formation. Contradictory to this, Mycenaean’s have a piece, Warrior Crater. Though these warriors do not appear out of comfort, they walk in order, with appropriate battle gear, they are obviously part of a sort of military or defense team. Does this just mean they were better prepared? Did they want to appear so? A good bunch of their pieces depict battle with animals, showing bravery. Were they prideful? Did the Minoans simply not have the ego? Did they simply appreciate the beauties beyond boasting their own bravery? Were they more artistically advanced and driven to seek other subjects? I suppose its all up for interpretation.
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Hi Lacey, you make some very good points. I hadn’t more deeply considered the contexts in which these art pieces were made, beyond the seemingly obvious. This got me thinking, and I was actually wondering if our views on both of these cultures have been shaped too much by the art we’ve found, when that probably does not represent anything near the full scope of the culture. It is even entirely possible that pieces of art from Mycenaean culture depicting peacetime activity and Minoan culture depicting war have simply not survived to modern day. However, that isn’t to say it never existed, and it might be naive of us to assume such.
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Excellent point about what both cultures felt comfortable about expressing and what we think we are perceiving about them. Is it possible that two cultures that thrive on trade may have been forming an advertising campaign through their artistic depiction of themselves? The Minoans may have been going for a fun resort feel, like a modern vacation spot that hides any internal strife that might turn off potential customers. The Mycenaeans may have protected themselves from being attacked and losing their excellent trade position, by making themselves look more scary and warlike. They were both savvy businesscultures, and we don’t have a lot of evidence to go on.
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Much of the Mycenaean art such as their ceramics centered around their militaristic attitude showing soldiers marching off to war, whereas the Minoan culture seemed to revolve around a less militaristic way of thinking. Much of the Minoan art shows nature such as the octopus of the Octopus Flask to the Honeybee Pendant. Art usually takes on the attitude of the culture at the time. It is usually a statement of how the populace feels at the time. By comparing the Mycenaean and Minoan art, the Minoans seem to at peace where the Mycenaean’s were thinking of war.
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Hi Dean, I know the Mycenaeans did include war in some of their art pieces but it had a very novel and almost amusing aspect to some of it(i.e. ceramic jars). Do you think the Mycenaeans where actually more fierce and war like when their war pieces included smiling cartoon characters? I went through all of our art examples of Mycenaeans and I don’t see a ton of war and conflict.
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Minoan pottery was covered in fun organic designs, with features that look like birds or flowers. Their rhytons were often shaped like animals as well, with the libation meant to be poured from the mouth of the animal. A Master of Animals is a popular image in Aegean art. A human man holds animals in a symmetrical pose, while surrounded by flowers. Jewelry was made in shapes of flowers, insects, and animals. Minoan religious art shows that they worshiped animal gods and sexy goddesses, and visited natural holy sites.
Mycenaean art featured hunting, death, and warriors, which looks like a big contrast to the Minoan scenes of kids leaping over bull horns. Mythology/history about Mycenaeans shows them to be warlike, as in the story of Helen of Troy. When they later moved into Crete and replaced the Minoans, they created legends of the previous Minoan ruler that may have made him out to be more like their own idea of a strong ruler. Some of the artifacts found in their major city do have similar motifs to Minoan art, such as the octopus on a jar, and little lady statues.
The palace Knossos was rebuilt with less defensive walls after it was destroyed. The architectural goal was to create a labyrinth, and I’d guess this meant the Minoans had a lot of time on their hands and a sense of having fun in life. The king that had the palace built went to war to create a peaceful nation that was safe to generate profit. The second build of the palace must not have needed thick walls after he unified the surrounding islands under his rule. After the Minoan fall, Mycenaeans moved into the palace and replaced a bunch of the groovy lady nature art with frescos of bulls and images of processions bearing tribute.
Mycenaeans built on hills, so that it was easier to defend themselves. Mycenae was built on a hill, and surrounded itself with thick walls.
The lack of signs of a male-dominated hierarchical society makes ancient Minoans look like hippy peacenics, but a lack of evidence isn’t necessarily evidence itself. If the Minoans abandoned their crumbling infrastructure and left, is it possible that they took some of their stuff with them? Maybe they sold artifacts that would give us further clues as to how they really lived. The Mycenaeans moved in and had already been adopting Minoan art through trade, is it possible the remaining Minoans quietly married into Mycenaean culture before it too collapsed? The real nature of the Mycenaeans is not known either. As the Khan Academy video said, we don’t know if all the fortification meant they were more offensive or more defensive. The evidence left behind by both cultures can only tell us they were both great at trading.
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Lives of leisure defiantly fit the Minoan Culture whereas the live of War fits the Mycenaean culture. Minoan art could be considered more peaceful, the focus was on nature, daily activities, animals and nature. The Mycenaean culture was all about war and dominance and their art reflects that. I feel that most times art is a product of our environment, other than fantasy art people most often make art that depicts their surroundings. I feel this premise is supported by the different works of art such as the Lions Gate from the Mycenaean’s and the Harvester Rhyton.
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