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RE: Gabe
I agree– the emotions are so much more vivid in the Hellenistic art. The Laocoon with it’s snake is in of itself unique, we don’t see many creatures in the periods before it! I love that piece as well. I think about the Dying Gaul a lot, how his anguish is so immense yet he is idealized by his enemy in the sculpture. It goes to show how much respect they had.Hellenistic art seems to display more varying works and emotions than classical greek artwork — the agony and pain seen in The Laocoon is so different than the emotions displayed in the classical period sculptures. Even though the classical period is more varied than the archaic period in facial expression, the Hellenistic period displays pain, sleep, old age, and defeat (Dying Gaul). It seems that they wanted to display more complexity and variation, going so far as to carve out their enemies because they admire their bravery. It is a lot more genuine and individualistic than previous ages– less structured than that of the classical period.
RE: Lacey Miller
Yes, I agree that vanity seems to be a prime subject within our culture. It’s kind of funny how the focus is to be an example of a prime human in both ancient greek culture and modern culture, but something almost unattainable by conventional means.RE: Maggie May
That’s very interesting about those sculptures in Columbia, and just shows us that standards for beauty are completely subjective to the culture and even the person. Our American culture, for example, would not see something like that as beautiful. I think our current society has been led to the beauty standards it has because of the idea of what “femininity’ and “masculinity’ are supposed to look like– luckily the times and standards are changing, slowly more accepting of the variety in human beings. ‘Looking at the beginning of the classical period, we see the sculptures begin to loosen up and become more realistic, such as the Kritios boy with contrapposto. Proportions are becoming more human and organic though the high and late classical period, as their faces begin to relax and more organic detail is added, making the sculptures more relatable. The form becomes more humanistic and ideal, as our previous discussion mentioned. We also see exact measurements being created within the buildings becoming “perfect proportions’ (the silver ratio). I can see this reflected in our society becoming obsessed with perfection in the digital age — obsession over makeup, anti-aging, and displaying our perfect lives in digital form. Trends for hair and style are constantly changing but there is no doubt there is a preoccupation for perfection.
RE: ckocsis
It’s true that when museums hold items from cultures everywhere, it creates an awareness and interest in different histories in the people that view them. I think this is where I feel most divided; some artifacts should be returned to their rightful culture/lands such as sacred cultural items (such as ones in the native american communities), while other artifacts should be protected in a museum if the land or culture is unable to protect them (such as warzones).RE: Bob Hook
If there’s one thing I can agree on, is that no one has the right to destroy or damage the historical artworks, as you said. That’s a great idea for the future, that way the pieces can be returned to their original lands/museums and people around the world can still be educated about it.This question incites a lot of passion in me. I am married to an Indigenous man (Navajo, Mandan, and Hidatsa) and lived on the Navajo reservation for four years. It is a constant battle getting their sacred artifacts back from museums and people that have taken it from their land so long ago. I firmly believe that found artifacts should return to the nation that they belonged to, as long as they have the means to do so. People should not have the right to take the ancient artifacts from the land and claim it as their own, let alone sell it for auction. I understand the need for education, but that can also be achieved by giving it back to the nations and handing over the narrative for them to tell, if they so choose to do so. As for a culture that doesn’t exist anymore, I still retain that argument, that the land/nation should keep the artifacts and help further educate people on their past as a land and as a country. The Aphrodite of Melos is in the Louvre, for example, was presented and given to Louis XVII by The Marquis de Rivière in 1820. Did he have a right to do so? Has the island of Milos attempted or consented to this? More research would need to be done, but it it something to think about.
RE: Bob Hook
Ooh, I like that quote. It holds humans more accountable for their actions as well, which I think why so many people are afraid of it. It’s a scary thing to rely solely on yourself rather than destiny and superstitions, yet the Greeks began forming this kind of thought. And as you said, it gives us even more freedom to enjoy those aspects of life. I enjoyed your response.RE: Kaitlyn
I didn’t think to point out how the Gods reflected similar human emotions. It’s amazing to me that they created such wild narratives and myths about their deities; and yet they based these myths on human experience and emotion (for the most part). That relationship with the art seems so unique to me, as often in art history (in the past cultures we have studied) it seems to focus more on idealized rigid forms, forgetting that humans are just that; human.Humanism surrounds the concept of raising the importance of humans to the same or higher importance of the divine, and can be used to idealize the human body and cause inspiration for the art surrounding it. It emphasizes on the potential rationality and goodness of human beings and treats human beings as rational creatures capable of empathy and thought. In the Greek art we studied this week, we can see the human figure slowly being created realistically and with gesture, such as contrapposto in Classical sculptures as opposed to the ones seen in the Archaic period like the stiff Kore figures. Idealized human forms become developed while still maintaining the familiar human form, becoming less abstract and more literal such as the Aphrodite of Knidos. This reminds me of the change in artistic style during the Amarna period in Egypt– Akhenaten depicted within that period is not as stiff as his precursors, but instead shown with a swollen belly and seen playing with his daughters in a more relaxed and relatable style. The changes in style in both cultures tell us that the focus is less rigid on the divine and more honest with human daily life.
RE: Valene
Oooh, I like how you pointed out the nature aspect. Along with your statement of wealth, it also could be because they were more isolated and protected within their island, which gives them a better connection to the land since they are less likely to leave it. I don’t think the Mycenae are as serious as portrayed, but I do believe their lifestyle and social order must have been quite different from the Minoans.RE: Bob Hook
I like how you pointed out that trading with other cultures during that time also exposed them to the dangers of war. I guess we could say that they took preventative measures to ensure the safety of their civilization. As you pointed out, the Minoan civilization seemed to have more leisure time to spend on focusing their arts beyond the use of utility. This makes me ponder the focus on death rites within the Mycenae civilization, such as the death masks and the treasury of Atreus. Instead of focusing on the arts, they focused on defense and death.In Mycenaean works, we see that they focus on defensive efforts and consider the best ways to protect their city. This is seen in Pelponnese, where the city is constructed on a hillside which is easily defensible, and helps them see whoever is coming up upon them from all sides of the city. On the Warrior Krater, we see uniform soldiers marching with weapons and armor, and as pointed out on the notes, bears a significant difference in atmosphere as compared to the Harvester Rhyton of Minoan culture. Minoans had time to construct buildings such as the Palace Complex of Knossos, which tells us that warfare was not on the list of priorities as this complex is labyrinthine and heavily decorated.
RE: Tamara Toy
I agree that Schliemann’s actions are more infuriating than Even’s. Altering history to fit your own narrative failed to educate people on how the culture actually worked, as you said. What’s more is that I feel his intentions were to gain popularity or some sort of awards for “discovering’ the ancient mask of legend, to be known as the man that did it. His intentions are more marred than those of Even’s.
